Lisa: Thursday, 2:15 PM
Got your message and read your website. It sounds interesting but I am curious as to how your philosophy differs from a mainline or evangelical view (if it does) of Christianity. Is your perspective an open theistic view?
Me: Thursday, 6:24 PM
Yes, it is most often referred to as open theism. This view of God is one that fully accepts a literal interpretation of Scripture. The creation of the world is in God's past and the day of judgment is in God's future, so we see that God experiences time and is not a timeless being which has become the predominant view today.
Lisa: Thursday, 7:58 PM
Well, the creation and judgment are in OUR past and future but I don't believe we can attach human limitations to God. God has no beginning middle or end He just IS. We (as finite beings) have a beginning, middle, and end. Let me ask you this, after the judgment and we are all in "eternity" will there be another "end"? Is God going to die? If He is finite wouldn't that mean he is fallible? Does He make mistakes?
Me: Thursday, 8:12 PM
God nor the Bible explains infinity to us, but it does explain what God is like. God has no beginning but he does have a "past", the creation of the world is in God's past.God has no end but he has a "future", the day of judgment is obviously in God's future since we are still here writing to each other.
Lisa: Thursday, 8:20 PM
No, actually I think finite refers to a beginning and an ending. Thus, we will cease to live as a human in this world. As finite beings we can only act in the now, we can act for the future or try to stay in the past but we can only be in the present. God on the other hand is infinite. I do not pretend to grasp that. I cannot as a human grasp the concept of infinity. He has no beginning or end. He said his name was I AM THAT I AM. He just IS. And what in the Bible suggests God's "past" and "future"?
Me: Thursday, 11:08 PM
And what in the Bible suggests God's "past" and "future"? This is a great question and the one that convinced me of this theology. The creation of the world by God absolutely implies time in God, not in the relativistic measurement of time, but in the essence of time as the sequence of events that cannot possibly be simultaneous. God existed before he created the world. Genesis is all about God doing this, then that, and it says he finished his work. Now the work of creation is in God's past, unless he is still doing it, but then it would not be finished. This is what our reasonable minds must accept if we are to take this literally. Isa 43:18 "Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. 19 Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? God here certainly seems to be saying that his future is open to do new things.
Lisa: Thursday, 11:17 PM
Again I think (and this theology) you are trying to apply human concepts to God. Yes, God created the world but He is timeless so in essence the creation is in God's past, present, and future. God has always been in existence before, during, and after the creation. Also I believe God continues to create but that may be another discussion. Regarding my earlier questions, if God is finite than will he die? How then is "eternity" explained?
Me: Thursday, 11:26 PM
We are supposed to think about God in human concepts because we are created in his image. Nothing that I have said has made God finite, unless you could explain that to me. Eternity is unlimited time, not no time. I know that is bad grammar, but I thought it was good way to make my point. Have you studied Greek Philosophy? Aristotle's god had no time and therefore could not create or even love for that matter.
Psa 102:25-27 Of old thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They will perish, but thou dost endure; they will all wear out like a garment. Thou changest them like raiment, and they pass away; 27 but thou art the same, and thy years have no end.
This Psalm is a direct statement about God's eternity. The world that he created will wear out and perish, he will endure or continue without wearing out, because he is spirit and not matter I suppose. God's years have no end, it does not say that he has no years. God has endless duration.
God has unlimited (infinite or all) power to do what he wants, when he wants, in an eternity of unlimited (infinite or all) time. God, Biblically, does not do everything he can possibly do, all at same timeless moment. Infinite means all, not none. We cannot say that God has infinite power and infinite time and have the word infinite mean two different things; all and none. If I said God has infinite power and mean that God is powerless that would be absurd. So if I say that God has infinite time how could that mean that he is timeless or without time. And it is even more silly and irrational to say God has time, and no time, at the same time! What we mean when we say God is infinite, in anyway, we mean that he has all. Biblically, when we say God has infinite power, he has unlimited or all power, and when we say God has infinite time, we mean unlimited or all time. To have no power would be limiting and finite, also, to have no time (be timeless) is limiting and finite.
We have limited power to do what we want, when we want, in a world of limited time.
Lisa: Friday, 1:56 PM
I guess I just see things differently than you. My God is omniscient
Me: Friday, 7:11 PM
Yes I agree, God is omniscient, but Biblically speaking he has created a world, by his own will, that has some unknowable elements to it, he knows all things knowable. God knows the potential, but not the actual, future choices of the finite beings he created. And God is omnipotent so he can intervene when he wants to, if he wants to. He can also cause things to happen or stop things that are about to happen. My faith rests in the power of God not just his knowledge.
Lisa: Friday, 7:32 PM
Ok, if that is what you believe, but it simply doesn't coincide with my definition of omniscient.
Me: Friday, 7:34 PM
It seems to be the Biblical one.
